Re: gmail

["Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith@ieee.org>]

Daniel <dascamel@gmail.com> wrote:
> Google has IMAP, just select the keep a copy in my inbox
> while setting up the POP features.

Not the same at all.

> Also what is this tracking?

For the last 25+ years or so of SMTP and NNTP, most mail
clients have honored and maintained Message-ID.  Your mail
reader should thread based on, as well as include the
corresponding Message-ID(s) in any response, 

> Google groups all my email based on subject

Yes, I know, and it doesn't always work.

The concept of Message-ID was to provide an easy,
non-arbitrary way to track messages.  It's pretty much
considered a _mandatory_ function of a mail reader (although
more and more companies are breaking that).  With subject, if
someone prepends with a tag (e.g., [MailingList]), the
various forms of Re:, RE:, etc..., sometimes they are broken.

Furthermore, it was always considered "best practice" to
append or even prepend the subject (if it changes
significantly) in threads.  In the old days, searching 25+
messages (let alone 100s!) in a NNTP thread was much more
simple to narrow in on specific details if the subject was
tailored to the current top at hand.  In the new days, web
archives of SMTP discussions work _exactly_ the same.

With Message-ID, regardless of subject, the follow-ups are
_well_threaded_.  The combination of threaded responses with
slight (or major) subject changes is ideal when it comes to
today's SMTP web archives, just as it was for NNTP UseNet
dicussions decades ago (or even today, for those of us who
still use UseNet).

If you've ever had to pour through dozens of messages in a
web archive, then you can appreciate when the subject is
modified after every few posts.  Furthermore, if you've hit
one web archive message and wanted to see the relationship of
the original message responded to, or all follow-ups, the
_only_ way that occurs is if your mail client tracks and
honors Message-IDs.

But if someone's mail client does not track Message-ID, then
you're left sorting by date, subject or do some other
arbitrary sorting.  Don't even bother to try to sort by
thread -- things will be _severely_broken_.  And mail
archives will not allow quick traversal of strings of
messages -- especially the quick links to follow-ups and
preceding messages responded to.

> and that is why I don't use Yahoo anymore.

Yahoo can sort many different ways, but the thread sorting is
most useful to me.  It's honoring and tracking of Message-ID
is considered the "required standard" of SMTP.

The "new age" of trying to sort on arbitrary subject is
imperfect, causes mailing list archives to be a mess and,
most of all, does not allow the "best practice" of long
threads with intertwined, well threaded responses, but
regular subject changes as the topic moves away.

I hit the mail archives at Red Hat and countless other groups
regularly that use Hypermail (Mailman) and other web archives
of mailing lists.  I rely on those "follow-ups" and "in
response to" links at the bottom of e-mails.  If a mail
client does not honor them as pass them in their headers,
Hypermail and other web archive mailing list programs cannot
create those.

> If I wanted to see something stated earlier in a tread I
> have to search thru Yahoo to find that email... :P

You obviously don't know how to use Yahoo mail.  :P

> I only use Google for email and will not change, it is
> simple and fast.

And doesn't honor Message-ID and Google says it never will.
They are as bad as Microsoft in this regard.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)

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