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RE: Certification
But you, however, represent only a minute percentage of people (or
companies) that have enough knowledge and experience themselves to be able
to make such judgement calls.
I don't think that not getting certified means you can't get employed. I
also don't think that not getting a degree means you can't get employed
either.
In any case, it's very hard for HR type people to determine the
reliability and credibility of an individual from an interview or
resume. Even people like yourself. This is especially hard for people
moving into the Linux market, because the maximum experience one could
have is 9 years in development, 5 really in commercial support. Those
people, for the most part, are already employed... by people like you.
The community we're addressing now are the people who currently are other
OS admins, students, recent graduates, hobbyists, or even people coming
from an entirely different field of study. What does having 15 years
background in, say, Aircraft maintenance, tell an HR person interviewing
this person for a jr sysadmin position or something. This aircraft
maintenance person has been a LUG member for 5 years, and can show you on
his website his beefy home network. He has no commercial experience. Are
you going to give him a 45k/yr entry level job on faith that he's a fast
learner?
What about the other 99% of the companies whose HR people don't have CS
degrees and who don't use Linux?
There are many angles, and bigger pictures to look at when considering
accreditation of skill.
On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Mark wrote:
>
> I hire people for my company and we don't care about certifications (Linux
> or otherwise). We care about your past experiences and how easy it might
> be for you to learn our system.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Oct 2000, Kara Pritchard wrote:
>
> >
> > I think that really depends on the certification you're looking at. Some
> > certifications are simply slips of paper that prove you passed an exam or
> > a course. Those certs aren't psychometrically developed (scientific term
> > that means the certification is developed to be valid to the current
> > market, and will stand up in court). Some are developed simply to sell
> > training and courseware, thus not complete exams. Others, you can buy the
> > answers over the Internet, or 10,000 other people hold the same
> > certificate.
> >
> > In short, there are a lot of certifications that don't matter. And heck,
> > what do I know? Maybe they don't.
> >
> > What I do know is, that the majority of corporate America cares about
> > those certifications. They care about the ones that don't prove anything,
> > and they care about the ones who do. To them, for a product or a person to
> > carry a certification gives them some sort of guarantee that they have
> > support and service for their product or their workplace using the
> > product.
> >
> > All technical validity arguements aside (which I could talk myself blue
> > with anyhow), certification shows interest, support, and warranty for this
> > Open Source product that Corporate America is scared to use, because noone
> > in their company has a B.S. in Linux. If certified people helps move Linux
> > into more and more corporate institutions and helps move more people and
> > business into reasonable, cost effective solutions, then I'm all for it.
> >
> > However, for sake of arguement for this arrangement within the LUG, the
> > idea to focus on a cert track simply satisfies needs for multiple
> > audiences. Certified or not, the learning course is a solid foundation for
> > all people, sysadmins, hobbyists, etc need to know. If in the end, people
> > interested feel qualified and confident enough to invest in themselves to
> > gain Linux Accreditation, then what does that hurt?
> >
> > Granted, I feel all the M$ certifications aren't worth the paper they're
> > printed on. They were designed to profit more out of their own product and
> > to further brainwash individuals and companies into Microsoft coma. When
> > everyone and their dog are certified, the certification does lose value.
> >
> > There is still value in the Cisco, Novell, HP, etc certification
> > tracks. Holding these certificates does demonstrate that you have
> > committed (and accomplished something) that not everyone else in the world
> > has.
> >
> > So, if you don't like the technical arguements about what certification
> > can do for you (aside from pay raises, extra customers, white space filler
> > on your business cards and in your email .sigs), consider the claims to
> > committment, accomplishment, and corporate fulfillment.
> >
> > - Kara
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Dwayne Masters wrote:
> >
> > > I took the preview LPI test at COMDEX/Chicago back in the fall, found them
> > > fairly challenging. My only question is what a certification is really
> > > worth? From the majority of folks I have worked with or have interviewed
> > > for positions, a cert is only worth the paper its printed on...
> > >
> > > Dwayne
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dwayne Masters
> > > dwayne@linux.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-silug-discuss@silug.org
> > > [mailto:owner-silug-discuss@silug.org]On Behalf Of Kara Pritchard
> > > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:01 PM
> > > To: 'silug-discuss@silug.org'
> > > Subject: RE: Certification
> > >
> > >
> > > The Exam Prep book for the LPI series, is well, not very good...
> > >
> > > New Rider's book will be out any day now (if not already). O'Reilly's will
> > > be out by January. Either of those is multiple times over a better
> > > resource.
> > >
> > > However, you should find the objectives detail everything you need to
> > > know. Where you find out how to complete the objectives is up to you, and
> > > quite often in the man pages.
> > >
> > > I don't think you'll have any issues.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Flood Randy Capt AFCA/GCF wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I think I'd be willing to work on a study group for the LPI exam. But, I
> > > > think I'm less qualified to lead studying for the LPI stuff than I am for
> > > > the RHCE exam. I suspect that we could take the list of objectives, and
> > > go
> > > > point by point, though.
> > > >
> > > > Besides, I wouldn't mind getting LPI certitifed as well.
> > > >
> > > > I've got the Exam Cram book for the LPI exam, but I haven't read it all
> > > yet.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: lwhite [mailto:lwhite@apci.net]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 8:53 PM
> > > > To: 'silug-discuss@silug.org'
> > > > Subject: RE: Certification
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would agree with Steve. LPI being more general would be a better
> > > > learning platform for us novices and would serve as a "test of the waters"
> > > > for those who would like to move on and spend the big bucks for the RHCE.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Steve [SMTP:sreindl@home.com]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 6:45 AM
> > > > To: silug-discuss@silug.org
> > > > Subject: Certification
> > > >
> > > > << File: ATT00010.html >> At the last couple of meetings of mvlug or
> > > silug
> > > > east or whatever we are now known as, there was discussion of
> > > certification
> > > > training or study within the group under the auspices of one or more
> > > > guru's. I have several questions to pose as a sort of interest poll.
> > > >
> > > > 1. Are enough of us interested to make this a worthwhile pursuit?
> > > > 2. Which certification course should be pursued?
> > > > 3. Where
> > > > 4. When
> > > > 5. Who
> > > >
> > > > I am definitely interested. Talking with Kara and looking at a few
> > > > websites, I think that the LPI approach is probably the way to go. It is a
> > > > more generalized exam process and it appears more available than RHCE. As
> > > > for the remainder of the questions, any input?
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > --
> > >
> > > Kara Pritchard Phone: 618-398-7360
> > > Author, RHCE Exam Cram
> > > Linux Evangelist kara@linuxgruven.com
> > > Asst Dir for Program Development kara@lpi.org
> > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> > "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Mark Bishop (mark@bish.net) | Computer Engineer |
> | 813.258.2390 | Network Engineer |
> | http://bish.net | Embedded Programmer |
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
>
--
Kara Pritchard Phone: 618-398-7320
Kara Pritchard Phone: 618-398-7360
Author, RHCE Exam Cram
Linux Evangelist kara@linuxgruven.com
Linux Users of Central Illinois kara@luci.org
Asst Dir for Program Development kara@lpi.org
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