[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: rants and rambles
Ooooh! Well put. Thanks!
Steve
On Monday 29 April 2002 11:43 am, you wrote:
> Both are incredibly important in my experience. GUIs are needed for
> speed, as the command line stuff usually requires a lot of memorization.
> I have a knack for memorization, but many don't. And even with my memory,
> there are still many command-line and text config items that require me to
> reference some other printed or digital material in order to remember the
> directive for the particular command or config item I am working with.
> In these cases, a GUI is much quicker most of the time. But, because of
> my use of GUIs when working with Windows, I can agree that many times,
> when there's some strange error in a program, I don't know what to do
> because I don't know what file is hooked where, what registry key is
> corrupted, etc. This stuff can be learned, but is very, very obscure most
> of the time. But, what has held true for Windows/DOS for me also holds
> true for Linux....or more appropriately UNIX. Know the core, but use
> whatever combination of GUIs and CLIs you need to get whatever
> job done in as timely and accurate a fashion as possible.
>
> <tangent>
> On a side note, I think this discussion starts to bring up one thing that
> I see wrong with the Linux community as a whole right now. Many of us
> (myself sometimes included) consider this an elite sect...something for
> only admins and UNIX experts to be involved in. Because we know how to
> work everything (or at least most things), we don't think there is a need
> to make anything easier. I do have a newsflash, though. Your average
> person is not going to take the time to learn the cryptic commands of vi,
> or how to write sed/awk scripts, or learn the markup for TeX or even HTML.
> A computer system to them is a system that keeps track of their numbers,
> their words, their information, and that's it. It's a huge filing cabinet
> that has the ability to quickly manipulate the things they do, making it
> possible to do more. Therefore they want something that is easy to work
> with, something that matches a paradigm they are used to (the term "files"
> regarding the container for information stored on a system....sounds quite
> a bit like those little yellow-brown folders that are laying around your
> office, eh?), and something that takes as little new learning as possible.
> Remember, I am speaking of your every day layperson....not an admin, or an
> engineer. This includes Clerks at doctor's offices, waitresses,
> attorneys, etc.
>
> This does bring me to a point. I promise :D Sometimes, end-users have to
> be involved in some administrative tasks. It's inevitable, unless a
> system is completely redundant, or they have a full-time administrator.
> But, even then, there are some simple admin tasks that everyone has to
> perform. Therefore, the GUIs are crucial to their use of the system. The
> GUI can also add a layer of obscurity that keeps the end-user from
> screwing the entire system, or even just their own files.
>
> What does all of this mean? It means that if we really want Linux to
> succeed, we must support developments of things such as webmin (it may
> suck, I don't know, but it's got a good idea at least). When you look at
> Microsoft, you see an incredibly huge, seemingly unshakable empire...not
> just a company. And how did this come about? By slowly taking the
> unending guesswork out of computing. They didn't have a superior OS.
> Their OS wasn't that stable. Still isn't. But, by stealing Apple's GUI
> OS model, using paradigms that everyone is familiar with, and then
> marketing this shit out of it, they now almost own everyone's soul. And
> if you ask the typical end-user their thoughts on MS Windows, they're
> going to be happy with it because they can, for the most part, easily
> connect to the Internet, do word processing, listen to MP3s, and look at
> porn. They don't care about PPP chat scripts, markup languages, difficult
> driver/module installs or image libraries. I used to think they should,
> but for those that aren't interested, there are too many other important
> things in this world to do. Not that knowing all of that stuff isn't
> important, it's just not important for everyone.
>
> The point is, everyone knowing the guts of Linux is not necessary for them
> to be able to use it effieciently. What is necessary is everyone having
> the opportunity to know everything about it if they so choose.
> </tangent>
>
> Koree
> ____________________________________
> Koree A. Smith | Ameth Technologies
> koree@koree.net | koree@ameth.org
> http://www.koree.net/
>
> "So let the sadness come again,
> On that you can depend on me, yeah,
> Until the bitter, bitter end of the world, yeah,
> When god sleeps in bliss..."
>
> On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Tim Coffey wrote:
> > Could that argument also be used by someone who programs in assembly
> > rather than C, C++, Python, etc?
> >
> > I rather like Webmin. I also think that easier GUI tools will bring
> > Linux to the masses. To each his own. We are all brothers.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jamon Terrell <JamonTerrell@charter.net>
> > Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:38:22 -0500
> > Subject: Re: rants and rambles
> >
> > > I have this whole theory about why 99.9% of people who use windows
> > > will never understand
> > > anything about how things work(it applies very well to webmin also).
> > > It's very similar to
> > > how you cannot learn how to drive a car by watching someone else
> > > drive it.
> > >
> > > -Jamon Terrell
> > >
> > > 4/26/2002 7:47:29 PM, Nate Reindl <reindlnr@apci.net> wrote:
> > > >Stephen D Reindl <sreindl@apci.net> shamlessly rambles:
> > > >> Playing this morning I learned several things.
> > > >>
> > > >> lpd will not work when you rename localhost to something other
> > >
> > > than
> > >
> > > >> localhost. Seems basic but when it can't find a localhost IP it
> > >
> > > won't print.
> > >
> > > >> Lesson learned? Don't do that! I couldn't get my jetdirect to
> > >
> > > work. I wonder
> > >
> > > >> why? All is fine now. I can print to my network printer now!
> > >
> > > YeeHaa!
> > >
> > > >> Webmin is a wonderful tool. I know all you command line only dorks
> > >
> > > are gonna
> > >
> > > >> kringe, but I don't care. If I play with it enough I'll finally
> > >
> > > gain an
> > >
> > > >> understanding of the file and directory structure and maybe my
> > >
> > > feeble mind
> > >
> > > >> will actually recall the locations and contents of all the
> > >
> > > different config
> > >
> > > >> files. It's all there at my fingertips. All I need is a table
> > >
> > > capable browser
> > >
> > > >> and the URL http://localhost:10000 and the root password and I'm
> > >
> > > in, even
> > >
> > > >> from my normal user account. I think it's kinda cool, so there.
> > >
> > > Found a few
> > >
> > > >> things that I didn't know were there. OBTW, Webmin will not
> > >
> > > install correctly
> > >
> > > >> when localhost isn't there either, hmmmm wonder why? Duh?!
> > > >
> > > >There's a file in /etc called 'hosts'. Windows has the exact same
> > >
> > > conventions
> > >
> > > >buried somewhere in \win(nt|dows)\system or \win(nt|dows)\system32.
> > >
> > > Change
> > >
> > > >your hostname and add yourself in there with the changed hostname.
> > >
> > > _*DO_NOT*_
> > >
> > > >remove the localhost entry! I think the stock /etc/hosts in RH >
> > >
> > > 6.2 tells one
> > >
> > > >not to with the result of Bad Things happening Real Soon After.
> > >
> > > Just change
> > >
> > > >your hostname the way you happened to do it (trivial), and do what I
> > >
> > > said
> > >
> > > >above. 'Nuff said here.
> > > >
> > > >I'm stepping in on Webmin; likewise, I'm defying my father's rules.
> > >
> > > I loathe
> > >
> > > >pretty web-based config interfaces to the point to where I won't use
> > >
> > > most of
> > >
> > > >them. I like using commandline stuff or web based interfaces I
> > >
> > > write myself,
> > >
> > > >damnit. It's still there at your fingertips in the commandline; you
> > >
> > > just have
> > >
> > > >to remember some real nasty commands and arguments however. :D
> > > >
> > > ></rant,_or_is_it?>
> > > >
> > > >I suggest you all pull my plug before I advance even further and go
> > >
> > > full out on
> > >
> > > >my Webmin rant.
> > > >
> > > >Ich glaube, daß ihr sollt mein Netzstecker ziehen, vor ich vorrücke
> > >
> > > weiter über
> > >
> > > >meinem Webmin Wortschwall. Spaß, ja?
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Nate Reindl << OTHS Web Mastah << Resident Luser at Large
> > > > '---> email: alles gehen nach reindlnr bei apci dot net
> > > >==
> > > >GAT d-- s a--- C++ UL+++>++++ P++++ L+++>++++ E+++ W+++$ N++ o+
> > >
> > > K---- w--- O-
> > >
> > > >M-- V-- PS+++ PE+++ Y PGP+ t+@ 5++ X R* tv-- b++ DI+ D+++ G+++>++++
> > >
> > > e* h! r% z?
> > >
> > > >-
> > > >To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> > > >"unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> > > "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> > "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
--
----- BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK-----
GAT/ d- s+ a+ C++++ UL++>++++ P+>++++ L++>++++
E--- W+ N++ w--- O- M-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP- t- 5 X R-
tv+++ b- DI+++ D G++ e+>+++ h--- z-
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
z-? h---? How odd!
-
To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
"unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.