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Re: rants and rambles
Both are incredibly important in my experience. GUIs are needed for
speed, as the command line stuff usually requires a lot of memorization.
I have a knack for memorization, but many don't. And even with my memory,
there are still many command-line and text config items that require me to
reference some other printed or digital material in order to remember the
directive for the particular command or config item I am working with.
In these cases, a GUI is much quicker most of the time. But, because of
my use of GUIs when working with Windows, I can agree that many times,
when there's some strange error in a program, I don't know what to do
because I don't know what file is hooked where, what registry key is
corrupted, etc. This stuff can be learned, but is very, very obscure most
of the time. But, what has held true for Windows/DOS for me also holds
true for Linux....or more appropriately UNIX. Know the core, but use
whatever combination of GUIs and CLIs you need to get whatever
job done in as timely and accurate a fashion as possible.
<tangent>
On a side note, I think this discussion starts to bring up one thing that
I see wrong with the Linux community as a whole right now. Many of us
(myself sometimes included) consider this an elite sect...something for
only admins and UNIX experts to be involved in. Because we know how to
work everything (or at least most things), we don't think there is a need
to make anything easier. I do have a newsflash, though. Your average
person is not going to take the time to learn the cryptic commands of vi,
or how to write sed/awk scripts, or learn the markup for TeX or even HTML.
A computer system to them is a system that keeps track of their numbers,
their words, their information, and that's it. It's a huge filing cabinet
that has the ability to quickly manipulate the things they do, making it
possible to do more. Therefore they want something that is easy to work
with, something that matches a paradigm they are used to (the term "files"
regarding the container for information stored on a system....sounds quite
a bit like those little yellow-brown folders that are laying around your
office, eh?), and something that takes as little new learning as possible.
Remember, I am speaking of your every day layperson....not an admin, or an
engineer. This includes Clerks at doctor's offices, waitresses,
attorneys, etc.
This does bring me to a point. I promise :D Sometimes, end-users have to
be involved in some administrative tasks. It's inevitable, unless a
system is completely redundant, or they have a full-time administrator.
But, even then, there are some simple admin tasks that everyone has to
perform. Therefore, the GUIs are crucial to their use of the system. The
GUI can also add a layer of obscurity that keeps the end-user from
screwing the entire system, or even just their own files.
What does all of this mean? It means that if we really want Linux to
succeed, we must support developments of things such as webmin (it may
suck, I don't know, but it's got a good idea at least). When you look at
Microsoft, you see an incredibly huge, seemingly unshakable empire...not
just a company. And how did this come about? By slowly taking the
unending guesswork out of computing. They didn't have a superior OS.
Their OS wasn't that stable. Still isn't. But, by stealing Apple's GUI
OS model, using paradigms that everyone is familiar with, and then
marketing this shit out of it, they now almost own everyone's soul. And
if you ask the typical end-user their thoughts on MS Windows, they're
going to be happy with it because they can, for the most part, easily
connect to the Internet, do word processing, listen to MP3s, and look at
porn. They don't care about PPP chat scripts, markup languages, difficult
driver/module installs or image libraries. I used to think they should,
but for those that aren't interested, there are too many other important
things in this world to do. Not that knowing all of that stuff isn't
important, it's just not important for everyone.
The point is, everyone knowing the guts of Linux is not necessary for them
to be able to use it effieciently. What is necessary is everyone having
the opportunity to know everything about it if they so choose.
</tangent>
Koree
____________________________________
Koree A. Smith | Ameth Technologies
koree@koree.net | koree@ameth.org
http://www.koree.net/
"So let the sadness come again,
On that you can depend on me, yeah,
Until the bitter, bitter end of the world, yeah,
When god sleeps in bliss..."
On Sat, 27 Apr 2002, Tim Coffey wrote:
> Could that argument also be used by someone who programs in assembly
> rather than C, C++, Python, etc?
>
> I rather like Webmin. I also think that easier GUI tools will bring
> Linux to the masses. To each his own. We are all brothers.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamon Terrell <JamonTerrell@charter.net>
> Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:38:22 -0500
> Subject: Re: rants and rambles
>
> > I have this whole theory about why 99.9% of people who use windows
> > will never understand
> > anything about how things work(it applies very well to webmin also).
> > It's very similar to
> > how you cannot learn how to drive a car by watching someone else
> > drive it.
> >
> > -Jamon Terrell
> >
> >
> >
> > 4/26/2002 7:47:29 PM, Nate Reindl <reindlnr@apci.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Stephen D Reindl <sreindl@apci.net> shamlessly rambles:
> > >> Playing this morning I learned several things.
> > >>
> > >> lpd will not work when you rename localhost to something other
> > than
> > >> localhost. Seems basic but when it can't find a localhost IP it
> > won't print.
> > >> Lesson learned? Don't do that! I couldn't get my jetdirect to
> > work. I wonder
> > >> why? All is fine now. I can print to my network printer now!
> > YeeHaa!
> > >>
> > >> Webmin is a wonderful tool. I know all you command line only dorks
> > are gonna
> > >> kringe, but I don't care. If I play with it enough I'll finally
> > gain an
> > >> understanding of the file and directory structure and maybe my
> > feeble mind
> > >> will actually recall the locations and contents of all the
> > different config
> > >> files. It's all there at my fingertips. All I need is a table
> > capable browser
> > >> and the URL http://localhost:10000 and the root password and I'm
> > in, even
> > >> from my normal user account. I think it's kinda cool, so there.
> > Found a few
> > >> things that I didn't know were there. OBTW, Webmin will not
> > install correctly
> > >> when localhost isn't there either, hmmmm wonder why? Duh?!
> > >
> > >There's a file in /etc called 'hosts'. Windows has the exact same
> > conventions
> > >buried somewhere in \win(nt|dows)\system or \win(nt|dows)\system32.
> > Change
> > >your hostname and add yourself in there with the changed hostname.
> > _*DO_NOT*_
> > >remove the localhost entry! I think the stock /etc/hosts in RH >
> > 6.2 tells one
> > >not to with the result of Bad Things happening Real Soon After.
> > Just change
> > >your hostname the way you happened to do it (trivial), and do what I
> > said
> > >above. 'Nuff said here.
> > >
> > >I'm stepping in on Webmin; likewise, I'm defying my father's rules.
> > I loathe
> > >pretty web-based config interfaces to the point to where I won't use
> > most of
> > >them. I like using commandline stuff or web based interfaces I
> > write myself,
> > >damnit. It's still there at your fingertips in the commandline; you
> > just have
> > >to remember some real nasty commands and arguments however. :D
> > >
> > ></rant,_or_is_it?>
> > >
> > >I suggest you all pull my plug before I advance even further and go
> > full out on
> > >my Webmin rant.
> > >
> > >Ich glaube, daß ihr sollt mein Netzstecker ziehen, vor ich vorrücke
> > weiter über
> > >meinem Webmin Wortschwall. Spaß, ja?
> > >
> > >--
> > >Nate Reindl << OTHS Web Mastah << Resident Luser at Large
> > > '---> email: alles gehen nach reindlnr bei apci dot net
> > >==
> > >GAT d-- s a--- C++ UL+++>++++ P++++ L+++>++++ E+++ W+++$ N++ o+
> > K---- w--- O-
> > >M-- V-- PS+++ PE+++ Y PGP+ t+@ 5++ X R* tv-- b++ DI+ D+++ G+++>++++
> > e* h! r% z?
> > >
> > >-
> > >To unsubscribe, send email to majordomo@silug.org with
> > >"unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
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> > "unsubscribe silug-discuss" in the body.
>
>
>
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