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Re: SourceForge drifting (?)

On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Mike808 wrote:

> Sean /The RIMBoy/ wrote:
> > C'mon Mike, give me more credit than what you just did.  I don't use
> > Sourceforge for my projects, I hate the sourceforge interface, period.
> That's all well and good. But,
> 1) You haven't written any code for SourceForge.

And why should I?  To see VA force me to sign over my contributions for
their vision?  For their bottom line?

> 2) You don't use SourceForge for your project, and you hate the interface.

Face it, you have to admit it sucks. Greatly.  

> Explain to me again why your opinion about what VA does matters?


I've got two other bylines, however, those links are now 404 since VA
decided *not* to hold up their end of the deal and screw over the
community with the community run Linux.com.  While my contributions are
not nearly as many as others (probably including at least one person I can
think of on this list), the fact of the matter is that VA royally fucked
over all of their volunteers and then slapped their hard work in the face
by stating linux.com was going to start paying for articles.  

And if you believe the guy running sourceforge when he says users will
have an opportunity to pull their projects off, I've got news for you.  VA
works like any other corporation.  They're backhanded and really don't
give two shits about their employees.  I feel sorry for the guy that made
those statements a couple of weeks back.  Why?  Because when VA pulls the
rug out from underneath him he's going to have pie in his face from the
entire community.  

> You sound pi55ed off about something,

slighty.  Moreso because you've decided to try and piss me off.  

> but claim you aren't actually affected 
> by whether VA goes under or not, and that it doesn't affect any code you write.

I don't care one way or the other.  Yes, I'm pissed that they screwed us
over.  Guess what, we're going to do something about it.  We're not going
to take our actions out of VA (as much as some of us would like), but
instead of whining we're doing something about it.

> So what do you care, again?

I think I've made my point.

> My point was you sound like you're whining that
> you won't get your free slashdot, freshmeat, and yes, even the latest CVS
> tarballs from your favorite SourceForge-hosted projects.

Freshmeat is about the only worthwhile site of the bunch these
days.  And if /. were to become a charge site I'd be more than happy to
move to something else.  I hear kuro5hin is looking for a few good page
views these days.  

FWIW, I rarely use CVS.  I only download tarballs from SF since whatever
project it is that I want just happens to be hosted there.  I personally
host all of my own projects.  

> Gee, sounds like
> the free-as-in-beer glory days of Open Source are over. Boo hoo.

Do I care?  Yes.  Does it surprise me?  No.  

> We already had this discussion from all the Napster users that want "free"
> music. (Overpriced music is a different argument.)

We're really comparing apples and oranges.  Whereas the artist did not
choose (at least most of them) to have their works hosted on Napster,
projects such as Lame have chosen to be hosted on SF.  That's their
perrogative.  VA set themselves up.  If they go to charge then many
projects will ultimately leave.  The code wants to be free and it should 

> Here's an idea. Volunteer to *pay* VA for hosting SF every time you download
> something from there.

No.  This will lead to alternate sources / mirrors.  This will fail

> Volunteer to *pay* to subscribe to Slashdot or Freshmeat.

No.  ESPN learned a hard lesson when they found out no one wanted to pay
for up to the minute sports scores.  Why should they when they can simply
flip on a TV and get them then and there from any number of sources.  

> Send the reporters that submit articles some real money instead
> of soliciting for karma whores.

Where's my paycheck?  Why should I have to pay when I already have?  I've
written articles, I've contributed to the community.  I don't ask for much
in return.  Heck, the recognition is enough.  I just don't like being
slapped for my work.

> Champion a vision where the users will *pay* 
> VA for the resources and services they provide to the OS community.

Yeah, and watch me get not a dime from them.  Screw that.

> The shareholders have said they're tired of paying, and its their vote that 
> counts, not yours, because after all it's their company.

Again, I've covered the bases.  I have a right to whine.  Moreso than any

> If you're trying to convince the shareholders of VA to continue to support
> your vision of free everything all the time (no matter how idyllic or noble
> 'tis), you're certainly not doing a very good job selling the "entitlement" 
> approach.

Hey, that's their cost of entry.  If they were too stupid to not know what
VA was up to when they invested then that's just tough luck.

Mike, again, do a little research before you go on another one of your
tirades.   Furthermore, what you propose is why we're at where we're
today... developing and using a free OS because the commercial
alternatives are a prohibitive cost barrier.  It's the early 80's all over

And I think I speak for almost everyone on this list when I say that most
of us got into linux because it is free.  I've been able to do things I
never thought possible or is possible under any OS.  

And fwiw, I've also given back to the community.  I've got a floppy mp3
streaming server to my name and I've been doing quite a bit of work on
Mosix and developing a floppy install for that.  


Believing I had supernatural powers, I slammed into a brick wall.
	--Paul Simon
www.rimboy.com		<-- Your source for the crap you know you need.

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