Re: Debian et. al.

[mike808@users.sourceforge.net]

> Similarly, the time lapse between the release of X1 and X1.1 was...  
> Well, maybe it wasn't as long as I thought. I just checked the Xandros 
> forum, and it cranked up in November '02.  It sure feels longer.

No longer than releases of Libranet and Lycoris (well, they're on their
200+th beta now, right?) and - SuSE. I don't think *ANYONE* is currently
on a faster release pace than one per year. And strangely, that's *exactly*
where Xandros is on pace. So I'm not sure what you're selling here, but
I'm not buying it.

> Anyway, the point is, GET A LIFE!

And what are you doing with yours? From here, it seems to consist mainly of 
telling other people to get one.... <g>

The point is lots of folks have gotten these any of these distros and gotten 
productive on them in short order. They're not the supercharged Ferrari's you
like to drive, but I don't see how that's Honda's fault for making Civics. 
And I don't buy into the notion that all those ricers out there really want 
to be Ferraris. They want to be riced-out Civics, not a sharecropper's 
Ferrari knockoff.

> WRT Libranet, what you say was true in the past.  But I think that
> Libranet is getting even more agressive and is starting to pull
> packages out of unstable.  Reading the posts on the Libranet forum, I
> get the impression that apt-get update/upgrade starting from the
> Libranet 2.8 base isn't always as smooth as hoped.  I think that I
> would recommend beginning with an older version of Libranet and
> updating to Woody or Sarge rather than purchase L-2.8.

So you knock Xandros for being "too old-school" with KDE2+woody, yet Libranet
can't manage a stable release based on "the latest and greatest" out of the CVS
repositories and nightly builds. Hmmm. Conflicted you are, Jedi-san?

> I want to see those guys succeed, but gut feeling is that installing L-2.8
> is not much different than installing Debian Sid.

And the Xandros (and Lycoris and Lindows) folks aren't willing to risk their
business on being that close to the bleeding edge. There's a reason it's 
called that. You're not heaping glowing praise on Libranet because they're
a better distro (you admit it's not as stable as you'd like, but then fault 
Xandros and the rest for being "too stable"), but because you admire their 
courage in "hangin' it all out there". If you like that approach to product 
development, then you'll _really_ like this distro called ... Gentoo. :=)

> And I'm now quite sure that the Xandros forum has been purged.

It's based on phpBB, and they may very well have "aging" turned on for the
posts. I've only heard of them purging trolls from their forums. You weren't
being a troll, were you? <g>

> Some guy was stuck at 640x480 resolution and his question set on the 
> forum *literally* for 30 days without a response.

> So I gave him the standard Debian dpkg-reconfigure xfree86-comon / 
> xserver-common / xserver-xfree86.  A Xandros employee came back an hour or 
> so later and told me that those commands don't work in Xandros 
> and he proceeded to answer the original question.  Pissed me off...

Fair enough. But consider this - *you* got someone from Xandros to reply to 
that guy's issue within an "hour or so", when he couldn't get any response.
From his perspective, you *did* accomplish something and solve his problem.
Or were you posting your answer expecting praise and glory?

And not to go RTFM on the OP, but this is spelled out in the manual that
comes with Xandros on page 41. Step by step. Mouse click by mouse click.

And he also could have emailed Xandros support directly if he _really_ needed
the help. Maybe he found it that way, solved his problem, and forgot about 
his post in the forums, and that's why it sat there for 30+ days, looking to 
you like it was unanswered?

The forums are clearly disclaimed as official support from Xandros. In part,
because people like you (who don't even *run* Xandros) can go and post 
incorrect instructions that will hose their systems. :=)

> Walmart has strong marketing. Lindows has strong marketing.  The two
> organizations are complementary.  As you would ask: Is that a good
> thing or a bad thing?

A bad thing. People aren't buying "marketing". They're buying a Linux distro 
and some dirt-cheap hardware. When people are sold "marketing", it leaves a
bad taste in their mouth. They're not going to remember it was a Lindows 
system that was all fscked up from day 1 they bought from WalMart, they're 
going to remember it was Linux, and paint all the other distros with the same brush.

At least they can choose Mandrake for the same price. But I agree of the 
consumer-market distros around now, Lindows has had better marketing and 
recognition so far, and the WM deal was a real coup for them.

> It appears to me that requests from the customer base is what is
> driving Libranet towards the "edge" features.

And from your comments on the resulting stability, heading right on over that 
edge...

> Mike> Why is only the "older version" [of Adminmenu] free, and the
> Mike> current one not? Or do they change the license from non-GPL on
> Mike> "their" stuff (just like the rest of the distros mentioned here 
> Mike> do) and release it GPL after the next version comes out? 
> Mike> (Effectively retro-actively "forking"> 
> 
> Rumor has it that the guys at Libranet like eating three meals a day
> and living indoors and that kind of stuff.

So do the guys at Xandros and Lycoris and Lindows. You didn't answer the
question - is the current Libranet "non-GPL" (due to installers or whatever)
and do they relicense the older version under the GPL?

Or, in other words, can you literally buy a current copy of Libranet and put 
up the ISOs on a public site?

I'd just find it interesting if that were the case and nobody has done so.
My gut tells me they just re-license the old version under the GPL, and that
the current version is not a completely GPL'd ISO. (Just like Xandros, Lycoris,
and Lindows are, but I don't think they retroactively GPL their stuff like
Libranet appears to be doing). I'm not saying they're evil for doing so, just
wondering what their licensing is.

Mike/

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