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Re: SourceForge drifting (?)


Mike you're right 100%.  I've never met a person so right in my
life.  Please pardon me as I bow and genuflect to your most mighty of

I was going to try and research my statements but life's to short to
argue with someone that insists upon never listening.  

In my response, I'd like to quote the Blood Hound Gang:

If you ain't ever been to the suburbs
Don't you ever come to the suburbs
Cause you wouldn't understand the suburbs


On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Mike808 wrote:

> Sean /The RIMBoy/ wrote:
> > > 1) You haven't written any code for SourceForge.
> > And why should I?
> So are you complaining about code you didn't write or how code you *might*
> write will be treated by VA? As I said, send your code somewhere else if
> it really bothers you. Bitching about how hypothetical code you may or may
> not be capable of writing might or might not be treated is really not 
> convincing me what terrible people VA are.
> > To see VA force me to sign over my contributions for their vision?
> > For their bottom line?
> I don't see how they are forcing you to do anything. Don't write code
> if what they do with it bothers you. Remember, part of the GPL bans 
> restrictions on what users do with code you GPL or purpose they use it for.
> VA is trying to figure out a way to make enough money to keep on giving 
> the resources they have been giving.
> > > 2) You don't use SourceForge for your project, and you hate the interface.
> > Face it, you have to admit it sucks. Greatly.
> Whether it sucks or not doesn't change the fact that you're bitching about
> something you don't use and have no intention of using. How, exactly is
> this important to you if it disappears, then? You won't have anything
> to whine about how much it sucks? Try Microsoft.
> > > Explain to me again why your opinion about what VA does matters?
> > [book review URL]
> > [conference review URL]
> > I've got two other bylines, however, those links are now 404 since VA
> > decided *not* to hold up their end of the deal and screw over the
> > community with the community run Linux.com.
> Huh? So you're a victim of Link Rot. Join the club. I don't know anything
> about any "deal" with Linux.com, and this is the first you mention it.
> I thought the thread was about VA offering a for-pay "Enterprise Edition"
> of the SourceForge software. Much like RH, SuSE, Mandrake and others do
> with Linux. Maybe there's more to the above I'm not familiar with.
> > the fact of the matter is that VA royally fucked over all of their 
> > volunteers and then slapped their hard work in the face
> > by stating linux.com was going to start paying for articles.
> Huh? Are you saying a webzine didn't pay you? Sounds like you have some
> other grievances here, unrelated to the VA SFEE product/service issue.
> And to top it off, they're already giving you 100% of the subscriber revenue 
> your articles generated. And still you complain. :)
> > And if you believe the guy running sourceforge when he says users will
> > have an opportunity to pull their projects off, I've got news for you.
> The site is up now. Anyone with a single point-of-failure mentality 
> refusing to have any sort of backup gets what they deserve. Sounds to me 
> like you have your opportunity starting after he made that comment.
> What's the big deal?
> > VA works like any other corporation. 
> Yes it does. And shareholders who gave VA their money expect some sort of 
> return on their investment. And shareholders don't really care how a
> bunch of freeloaders that leech off of their investment feel when they
> pull the plug.
> > They're backhanded and really don't give two shits about their employees.
> Now, now. Their employees don't *have* to work for them. They're free to 
> quit at any time. Employers have to work in a free market too, you know.
> Maybe it is a crappy place to work. Maybe crappy for you is a dream job
> for some poor schlub from middle Africa making $400/yr.
> > I don't care one way or the other.  Yes, I'm pissed that they screwed us
> > over.
> You sound more like you're mad 'cuz they are picking up their toys and
> going home. And you certainly don't sound like you are indifferent.
> > Guess what, we're going to do something about it.
> Good for you. I hope it is writing code and not webzine articles about
> how indignant you are that your free pass in the real world has expired.
> > Freshmeat is about the only worthwhile site of the bunch these
> > days.  And if /. were to become a charge site I'd be more than happy to
> > move to something else.  I hear kuro5hin is looking for a few good page
> > views these days.
> So, if you're so happy to move to somewhere else, why do you care if VA
> pulls the plug on their sites and services? You're certainly not willing
> to pay a dime for the benefits you've received from them. Why is it that
> they owe you again?
> > > We already had this discussion from all the Napster users that want "free"
> > > music. (Overpriced music is a different argument.)
> > 
> > We're really comparing apples and oranges.  Whereas the artist did not
> > choose (at least most of them) to have their works hosted on Napster,
> > projects such as Lame have chosen to be hosted on SF.
> And they're just as free to choose to mirror themselves somewhere else.
> Or ask VA/SF for their money back. Oh, that's right. They didn't *pay*
> one red cent for all of those services or resources.
> Beggars can't be choosers.
> > If they go to charge then many projects will ultimately leave.
> Maybe so, maybe not. Maybe the really sucky ones will leave.
> What? You thought Darwinism doesn't apply to software? Hah!
> > The code wants to be free and it should be.
> You confuse Libre with Gratis. All projects on SF are as free as they
> want to be. And just as free to go find some other carcass to feast on.
> > No.  This will lead to alternate sources / mirrors.  This will fail
> > miserably.
> And alternate sources/mirrors is bad because...?
> I thought you wanted code to be free.
> Or are you confusing Libre with Gratis again?
> > Where's my paycheck?  Why should I have to pay when I already have?  I've
> > written articles, I've contributed to the community.
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but "breathing" doesn't count as "contributing".
> Your "contribution" probably ranks on that level in the big picture.
> I downloaded some code from somewhere, causing it to be more popular.
> Does that count as "contributing", too? All I'm saying is that if the
> world held a vote on the relative importance of your "contribution", I
> doubt it would be worth the time it took to conduct such a vote. In the
> sense that the folks were voting instead of doing something productive.
> And just to make you feel good, as insignificant as it may or may not be,
> my own contributions are even more miniscule than yours.
> > I don't ask for much in return.  Heck, the recognition is enough.
> Doesn't sound like it from your posts.
> > I just don't like being slapped for my work.
> I don't see how you were "slapped" by VA offering their for-pay SFEE.
> > > Champion a vision where the users will *pay*
> > > VA for the resources and services they provide to the OS community.
> > Yeah, and watch me get not a dime from them.  Screw that.
> Why are you expecting a dime? I thought the recognition was enough.
> And if *you* are expecting a dime, why are they so evil for expecting
> one also? (And largely for the same reasons, I suppose - rent, etc.)
> > Again, I've covered the bases.  I have a right to whine.  Moreso than any
> > shareholder.
> Again, VA is a company, not a charity or a self-help line. Whine all you
> want. That's still not going to make VA decide to continue to lose money 
> forever just because you want free (Gratis) stuff.
> > Hey, that's their cost of entry.  If they were too stupid to not know what
> > VA was up to when they invested then that's just tough luck.
> Then why are you upset when they wake up and pull the plug?
> > developing and using a free OS because the commercial alternatives are a 
> > prohibitive cost barrier.
> You confuse Libre with Gratis. We all liked Linux because it costs $0.
> Not because it was Libre and you could see the source code. That was bonus.
> How many Open Source products have you paid hard $$$ for?
> Do you choose to pay for an OS product or choose an alternative solely
> because it costs $0?
> Do you not understand that by choosing $0 products that you derive value 
> from itself offers a barrier to development? Because then, only programmers
> well-off enough to survive on the sole benefit of their work being 
> "humankind's goodwill", are able to contribute. And how did they get to 
> be well-off enough? Gee. They have *jobs* where *companies* *pay* them
> for their efforts.
> Your Utopia is noble, elegant, and even to be admired. But not one word
> of praise, the high regard of your peers, or more downloads than a Pamela
> Anderson home video will pay one single mortgage payment or put one more 
> Jolt cola in the fridge.
> They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, and apparently
> that's the only thing the Open Source community has to offer in exchange
> for all the hard work and efforts of all the people that Linus, RMS, 
> Larry Wall, et al. get most of the credit for.
> Don't get me wrong. I am just as passionate about OS as the next guy.
> I just won't believe that it is a panacea for all the bad code in the world.
> There's plenty of sucky Open Source code out there too. Some of it, I'm
> certain I wrote... Nor do I believe that just because code is Open Source
> somehow makes the ideas expressed in the code immune to the competition of 
> ideas that takes place in the real world and must be preserved for all
> eternity.
> > It's the early 80's all over again.
> No, it's the late 90's Internet stock bubble bursting in Linux-land.
> > And fwiw, I've also given back to the community.  I've got a floppy mp3
> > streaming server to my name and I've been doing quite a bit of work on
> > Mosix and developing a floppy install for that.
> Good for you. And I hope you're not taking time away from working on those
> projects by working at some sucky job to pay rent and eat and other bull5hit.
> Because the world needs your code.
> As VB has taught us, just because you *can* program,
> doesn't mean you *should*.
> Mike808/

Believing I had supernatural powers, I slammed into a brick wall.
	--Paul Simon
www.rimboy.com		<-- Your source for the crap you know you need.

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